Goku Is Not A Good Father (aka The Official DBS Liveblogging Thread)

[Valigarmander]

New episode spoilers.
[spoiler]Gain a love interest, watch her get killed shortly after. Such is the life of Future!Trunks.[/spoiler]

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

^ [spoiler]At least CL doesn't need to worry about a potential romance. Probably. I'm sort of surprised by her death, though. They made it come off as it she had a significant role, so I'm sort of disappointed but I almost always appreciate a decent twist.[/spoiler]

What I'm most glad about is Zeno being a confirmed universe buster. Everyone was crying hyperbole but DBZ doesn't usually go that route unless they make it explicit, like with Burter, or reveal it later as a joke/plot device like Monaka.

Black's language has some people speculating about his origin in different ways now, since he calls Trunks a "Saiyan" sort of in a manner like a Tuffle might. Overall a really interesting episode, and as usual I can't wait to see more.

[Apollo the Just]

[spoiler]JESUS CHRIST HOW MANY CLOSE FRIENDS AND FAMILY MEMBERS DOES FUTURE TRUNKS HAVE TO WATCH DIE BEFORE THE WRITERS OF THIS SHOW ARE SATISFIED[/spoiler]

A couple thoughts:

1. COOL GUYS DONT LOOK AT EXPLOSIONS DURING SWORDFIGHTS


2. I hate myself for saying this, but evil Goku is hot

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

[spoiler]ALL OF THEM.

I think it would be cool if Trunks became twisted by his experiences and became a sort of Justice Hitler villain/hero.[/spoiler]

[Apollo the Just]

[spoiler]I don't really see that extent happening but I can DEFINITELY see him getting really **** up by all this. I mean, he already was **** up before, but. There's no way he won't be impacted by this and I think he's going to get a lot of really intense development which I am so here for.

I'm kind of hoping for something along the lines of Apollo Justice in AA5 -- he's still a good guy, but he can't go along with the blind positivity of Phoenix and co. after the trauma and loss he's experienced. He's kind of an antihero for part of the game because of it.

I just love it when my favorite characters suffer and get all angsty and ****...... next episode now pls...........[/spoiler]

Also, I loved how the OST got revamped a little for this arc. The track playing when Future Trunks and Bulma were talking was really nice.

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

[spoiler]True, I definitely don't see it happening, but I like the idea. We've had several villains become heroes, for once I'd like to see the opposite.

I never played the PWAA series but that sounds pretty cool. And I didn't notice the OST. I might rewatch it so I can check that out but I kinda want to wait for the dub before really rewatching the series.

I'm still curious where Majin Buu is in Trunk's timeline. Babidi should've already attempted to resurrect him but there was, as I assumed, no mention of it.[/spoiler]

[Apollo the Just]

[spoiler]Also, for a character whose development in the Cell arc was so 100% centered around him internalizing blame for things that weren't his fault, there's 0 doubt this is going to really mess him up. I think we are in for some dramatic Trunks character development. Get ur popcorn folks **** is about to get angsty[/spoiler]

I think I mentioned before elsewhere but yeah, Buu in this timeline makes zero sense so I'm just not even worrying about it. Mai still also makes zero sense. Shrug

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

I'm curious how Vegeta will treat him, too. He was cold to him until the end of Cell Saga (never really opened up to him at all but flipped out upon his death), and then he fully opened up to Kid Trunks. I wonder if his feelings toward Kid Trunks will carry over or if he still has to open up to him specifically or what.

coma plz

[Apollo the Just]

I feel like on one hand Vegeta is gonna realize what a dick he was to Future Trunks after finally bein such a good dad to Lil Trunks, but on the other he is not one to admit his mistakes. So. I think the reconciliation is going to be hard won, but it will happen. And it will be super dramatic.

itll be good. I am so hyped for this arc. Please destroy me emotionally, DBS. Thank you.

[Valigarmander]

[QUOTE="I REALLY HATE POKEMON!, post: 1598589, member: 18119"][spoiler]I'm still curious where Majin Buu is in Trunk's timeline. Babidi should've already attempted to resurrect him but there was, as I assumed, no mention of it.[/spoiler][/QUOTE]
Babidi was only able to revive Buu due to the power he absorbed from Earth's outrageously strong fighters. Since everyone is dead in this timeline, there isn't enough power to revive Buu and Babidi probably didn't even bother trying.

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

[QUOTE="Valigarmander, post: 1598596, member: 30663"]Babidi was only able to revive Buu due to the power he absorbed from Earth's outrageously strong fighters. Since everyone is dead in this timeline, there isn't enough power to revive Buu and Babidi probably didn't even bother trying.[/QUOTE]

While that is true, he could, and probably would, go looking elsewhere for the power. He doesn't seem like the "stop trying" type. Actually, maybe that is what will happen. Perhaps Buu is revived later because Babidi had to go out in search of power elsewhere. Perhaps it is related to the green, Kai-looking woman from the new intro, too.

[Valigarmander]

I don't think he'd stop trying. But it probably wouldn't happen in Trunks's lifetime. Babidi's already spent millions of years waiting to revive Buu, after all.

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

Ah, he did, didn't he. Guess I won't get to see new Buu forms, damn it.

[Valigarmander]

I just want to see Majin Buu **** do something now that he's one of the good guys.

And Android 18, for that matter.

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

I don't recall if Buu trained for the recent tournament or not, but if he hasn't then he is almost useless. Same for Android 18. Some interesting trivia is that Android 18 can actually get stronger, according to Toriyama. I assumed that she could not, but that isn't the case. Seeing them both be relevant fighters would be interesting. May as well bring 17 back into the spotlight as well. Also, the rest of the Z Fighters.

[Apollo the Just]

Android 18 and Videl and Buu need to kick more ass. 18 could kick so much butt if she would participate in a fight. The arc about Videl training and learning to fly was so great, and I loved how she and Gohan were BOTH Saiyaman in the epilogue, but then in Super it's just like nope. Like, Gohan's gotten a lot of focus on being a family man and a dad and a scholar AND a fighter (and reconciling all of those); why can't Videl get that too?? I know she's not as strong as the dudebro protags, but once she and Gohan got married they just stopped giving her character development.

--

This is unrelated to everything but I saw a completely groundless and ridiculously far-fetched fan theory about Black being an evil version of Goten instead of Goku, and now I'm really invested in that possibility.

Sure, Goten shouldn't exist in this world, but TBH neither should Goku or young Mai so ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE. I'm interested in seeing how all of this is explained, I'm hoping it'll be just as cool and "BRO I DID NOT SEE THAT COMING" as all the timeline **** in DBZ was first time around.

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

I don't see Videl ever getting stronger through anything but fusion. It really wouldn't work if she suddenly became powerful enough to be relevant. I do want to see more of her in the filler, though.

I don't think Mai was young, really. Bulma is supposed to be getting up there in age but she's drawn like she's in her 20's. I think that's just the same thing for Mai, really. As for Goku existing, it's probably another universe's Goku (the one Beerus wished back most likely). I guess Black could be Goten, though, one from another universe. Toriyama specifically referred to him as Goku Black however, so it doesn't seem to be the case.

[Apollo the Just]

Yeah that's one thing that bothers me about Super's art style-- how young Bulma looks. She aged significantly throughout DBZ but in Super she looks about 10 years younger than she did in Buu. Also, how old are Trunks and Goten supposed to be? If Pan is born shouldn't they be like 11-12? But they still both look about 9 years old.

Future Bulma looks older though, so I figure if Mai is supposed to be her age she should at least have some wrinkles. WHO TF KNOWS

and yeah I know it's groundless but that doesn't stop me from thinking evil Goten would be **** cool. On the topic of age/appearance, Black looks a good 30 years younger than Goku should at that point anyway - he looks YOUNGER THAN THE GOKU IN THE PRESENT. What even.

That's the biggest thing I miss from Z - the sense of generations and characters aging and changing throughout different points in their life. Like it's totally there for Gohan but everyone else seems to be trapped in a weird temporal vortex where they are not permitted to age.

Kind of like Bulma's mom, I guess.

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

^ Well Goten was 7 during Buu Saga. I am not sure how much time passed but 9 actually sounds about right.

Future Bulma is going through some s***, so maybe the stress is getting to her. On top of that Bulma tries her best to look young (it's established in the first couple episodes of DBS, I believe) but Future Bulma probably doesn't. Also Mai could just age better, I dunno.

Black could have been dead and then revived when Beerus wished that planet back to normal, which could account for his youthful appearance. Plus Saiyans retain their youth a long time.

Even though they made an excuse for why Bulma looks young I still don't like it. If they want young women then introduce new characters, or focus on Videl. Since Pizza is canonized I wouldn't mind seeing her some more.

[Valigarmander]

The theory I've heard regarding Future!Mai is that the Pilaf gang wished themselves young sometime before the Androids arc, which... I guess is possible, since we never even see them in Z.

As for Bulma, Super takes place about 30 years after the start of Dragon Ball, so she should be about 46 here, which isn't terribly old. Maybe she inherited her mother's youthful aging?