Goku Is Not A Good Father (aka The Official DBS Liveblogging Thread)

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

^^ I agree with most of what you say, but while Bulma isn't a bad person she is a bit of a selfish bitch. Maybe it is because she is rich.

[Wicked Witch of the Crest]

She's selfish, true. She's very much a better mother and friend when it comes down to it. She cares enough to let Trunks make his own decisions. Chi Chi cares more about Gohan's well being than his own ability to make his own decisions. The problem is is that Gohan was given "man training" super early on, before he was even a teenager. He was barely, what, 10? So he never had a chance to live a real life in the end. Chi Chi may be overprotective, but the issue is she's just trying to make him good at school and to be some kind of scholar, not what he overall wants. Both parents, to be honest, are terrible in the end. It's good to make sure Gohan balances his life, but neither care about that. Goku just wants him to fight, and Chi Chi just wants him to study. Chi Chi has one good point, and that he's still a kid and shouldn't be put in life and death situations. However, the point is murky too; He's half-Saiyan, a half-alien, and has powers that aren't like a normal person's. That's why it's very hard to raise a kid like him. Obviously it was handled terribly for many reasons, namely both parents having terrible ideas of how to properly raise a child. For different reasons.

That said, let's also note that it was intended to end at the Frieza saga, so Gohan would've likely just went on with a semi-normal life originally. The Cell Saga was forced onto Toriyama. So I don't think the fact that characters were terrible written is 100% his fault. I mean, it mostly is, but he had to make excuses to keep the fight up. That includes exploring Gohan's training from back then. Since it was a pretty notable event, it should have an actual point. He was useless for the most part during the Frieza saga, bar him holding off Frieza a little... and that's it. He became more notable afterwards.

And again after the Cell Saga, he was forced to make another one. This could be part of why he went with the Great Saiyaman, as well as go with Gohan being killed by Buu. It's likely a lot of it didn't go as he really planned. A lot of the screwed up stories and characterization feel like Toriyama had to make bad excuses, wasn't allowed to much develop characters how we want, etc.

That said, not sure why GT was what it was. Albeit, I didn't mind the series, bar the dumb overfocus on Goku. I kind of liked that Vegeta had changed to a degree. It felt kind of nice to see the development. His character design was pretty dumb, though. The dork thing didn't fit him. But maybe the point was to show that he's only alien because he comes from another planet, not that that he wasn't ultimately just a normal person when it came down to it. Or as much as possible.

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

Yeah, Toriyama did have to continue the series further than intended and I don't think he really wanted to. Dragon Ball Super is pretty good right now because he's fresh off a huge break and has his passion for it back, but once it tires him out again he'll probably just quit this time. I'll be first in line to pressure him back, though...haha.

Anyway, while I enjoyed GT it was definitely far more flawed than either DB or DBZ. From focusing on the Saiyans nigh exclusively to some dumb villains, I think it was messy but entertaining. Toriyama was not very involved with GT so that's probably a big part of why it had more issues than any of Dragon Ball/Z.

Despite Dragon Ball Super (and the new movies) being better than GT overall, I would still suggest people watch GT first coming off Z. It is isn't bad, and is already dubbed, plus you'll only appreciate DBS more afterward. I'm not sure how a newcomer to the series would think of GT after watching DBS first, especially considering some fans disliked GT before there was DBS to compare it to...so definitely GT first, IMO.

Also, damn was that a good episode of DBS right now. Wow.

[Deepfake]

The most important thing that came from Dragonball GT was Vegeta's moustache.

[Apollo the Just]

So I think I've invented the ideal viewing order for Dragon Ball Z:

-Watch original series in its entirety. Suffer due to **** filler at parts, but get the beauty of the driver's license episode and some prime Piccolo and Gohan moments during the Garlic Jr. arc. End it off with the greatest epilogue in anime history and the knowledge that Gohan and his wife are goddamn power rangers.

- Watch the Kai version of the Gohan v. Cell fight. Pacing is so significantly better so it takes about half as long, and you still get all of the emotional intensity and get to re-live the absolute hands-down most satisfying final blow in the entire series. Also, literally every main character plays a part at the end of the fight, helping Gohan, especially Vegeta who recognizes Trunks as his son and addresses Gohan by name. Even Goku owns up to his behavior in his own way and supports Gohan and gets better development than he did at the actual series end, and Gohan and Goku for the first time seem to have a genuine understanding of each other and fight together in spirit. It's a really climactic ending.

((Basically, treat the Buu arc in its entirety as an epilogue, because it has some Great **** but it wasn't as good of an ending.))

Then cry a lot about how much you love this dumb series.

[spooky scary bearatons]

honestly this whole experience has reminded me how sacred dbz is

[Apollo the Just]

[QUOTE="Valigarmander, post: 1594357, member: 30663"]Now watch Battle of Gods.[/QUOTE]

Just watched this. Oh my god. It was like..... an amazing fanfic. I'm in actual disbelief that this movie is canon and I'm so thankful

(I couldn't find the sub anywhere so I watched it dubbed and Bulma calls Vegeta "Prince Badman" I've never been happier)

[X-3]

Goku: Who's worse at parenting than him?!

[Valigarmander]

^^ I thought the dub was good.

[MEDIA=youtube]9hKlJcp_f0o[/MEDIA]

[Apollo the Just]

No offense to Vegeta, but I've found the objective best dad in the entirety of Dragon Ball, forever. I am so proud and happy. I'm going to cry.



gohans gonna be the kinda dad piccolo stepped up and tried to be when goku straight-up failed :,)

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

I think I'm going to cry too. New episode tomorrow.

[Valigarmander]

^^ He's gonna leave Pan alone in the wilderness for a few months?

[Valigarmander]

Have you watched DB yet, CL?

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

Nowhere to put this but here's the cutest powerup ever:

[Valigarmander]

Goku: Super Saiyan at age 25.
Gohan: Super Saiyan at age 10.
Goten: Super Saiyan at age 7.
Pan: Super Saiyan at age 1.

Make it happen, Toriyama.

[Apollo the Just]

I'm beginning to suspect that the SMALLER the percentage of Saiyan blood in a Saiyan-Human hybrid child, the MORE stupidly prodigious the child is.

Come on, Pan. Prove me right.

((Can you imagine?? Buff golden-haired toddler???? I NEED IT))

[Apollo the Just]

----

YOOOOOO SPEAKIN OF DADS, AND PEOPLE WHO DON'T HAVE THEM: FUTURE TRUNKS CONFIRMED IN THE NEXT ARC OF SUPER

Future Trunks hasn't met Vegeta since the end of the Cell arc when he had jUST BARELY acknowledged him as his son. Now that he's full-fledged Dad Mode, I. I need to see what that interaction is going to be like.

And speakin of PAPA GOHAN, I NEED FUTURE TRUNKS AND ADULT GOHAN INTERACTION. IT'S GOING TO RUIN MY LIFE. I'M SO EXCITED OH MY G O D

[Valigarmander]

"GOHAN... YOUR ARM GREW BACK!"

[Apollo the Just]

"ALSO YOU LOOK LIKE A WELL-ADJUSTED MEMBER OF SOCIETY WTF"

[Valigarmander]

[QUOTE="CuccoLady, post: 1595035, member: 30977"]((Can you imagine?? Buff golden-haired toddler???? I NEED IT))[/QUOTE]
The more I think about it, the more I want this to happen. I can just imagine a tiny, gold-haired infant floating in the air and smacking Frieza or whoever around with rapid-fire punches.