Goku Is Not A Good Father (aka The Official DBS Liveblogging Thread)

[Apollo the Just]

I'm a mod I have to read spoilers in this forum you realize that right

ALSO THAT'S PERFECT AND EXCELLENT NEWS

#BYE GOKU

[LOOT]

[spoiler]Apollo Justice sucks Gohan sucks Homestuck sucks Ruby sucks HAH[/spoiler]

[Apollo the Just]

[spoiler]mods can also delete posts loot it would be wise to remember this[/spoiler]

Also Goku literally just said the words "Gohan, just get angry! Just remember the battle with Cell!"

What. What amazing fatherly advice I'm glad he learned so much about his son emotionally... wow

[CaptHayfever]

[spoiler]I hear Goku is the grown-up version of the protagonist from Dragon Ball.[/spoiler]

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

[Apollo the Just]

Yo. Yo yo yo. Yo what the hell.

So Goku has moved on to being a **** dad to Goten and Trunks now. The kids JUST wake up and JUST learned that Vegeta, Trunks's role model and dad, and Gohan, Goten's role model and big brother, are DEAD (not actually true for Gohan but). So they start cryING OBVIOUSLY. THEYRE 7/8.

GOKU YELLS AT THEM "SHUT UP!! IF IT UPSETS YOU THEN LEARN FUSION. YOU TWO ARE GOING TO DEFEAT BUU."

Can Goku stop a) making children fight his battles without making it a CONVERSATION, and b) SCREAMING AT YOUNG KIDS WHO ARE HAVING VALID EMOTIONS

OH MY GOD JUST GO BACK TO DEATH ALREADY YOU'RE RUINING GOTEN'S LIFE


----

But there is a light in these dark times......... Vegeta hugged Trunks for a very long time and then sacrificed himself to try and FINISH A FIGHT HE FELT RESPONSIBLE FOR SO HIS SON WOULDNT HAVE TO

VEGETA IS THE BEST DAD

[Valigarmander]

Vegeta has some good moments in this saga. If Gohan stole the Cell saga, then Vegeta steals this one.

But yeah, Goku never stops being an *******.

[Apollo the Just]

Can I just say that when I created this thread and the worst that had happened was Goku yelling at his kid and clearly not understanding him and being kind of a dick, I didn't realize there would be a 5 page topic's worth of garbage parenting in this series,, I just wanted to vent about how a "great guy" actually seemed to be flawed

I didn't realize it was just a symptom of far worse to come....... You all warned me....... But I wasn't prepared for this

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

I don't want to make a new topic just for this but it sort of fits here...mother of God, episode 39 of Dragon Ball Super was epic. Goku may be the worst father but he is the best hero.

Also father related, Ox King was a bad dad. He let his child run around in the wilderness wearing this:

[Deepfake]

Having just watched the first few episodes again, I think that Goku at first is traumatised by having his son kidnapped, and also secretly wants Gohan to have the life Chichi wants for him. I'd say that eventually he realises that he can't protect everyone infinitely and so he pours his faith into Gohan's ability to overcome, but Gohan just wants to be validated as all children do and their concerns are written as starkly incompatible.

[Apollo the Just]

Goku didn't start setting off my Bad Dad Radar until the middle of the Frieza arc when he goes Super Saiyan for the first time. I think Master Roshi makes a comment about how he's struggling not to lose who he is as he tastes this new power for the first time, which is probably a huge part of it. I think it's when the villains and the situations start getting ridiculously extreme that Goku has to make some heavy decisions, and he starts making those decisions in favor of maximizing strength no mater what.

When Gohan is young, during the Frieza arc, he's ridiculously strong for his age but still nowhere near Goku or Vegeta's level. So at that point, when Gohan wants to do everything he can to bring back Piccolo and to help his father and his friends, and when he demonstrates immense inner strength and bravery standing up to these ridiculously overpowered enemies when he's the only one left, as far as Goku's concerned he's just a toddler flailing around at alien Hitler and if anything he's in the way. Goku wants to save his son's life so he lashes out and pulls the "I'm your dad so listen to me" card to make him obey and leave so Goku can handle the fighting.

When Gohan is older, it's the exact opposite dilemma -- Goku trains with Gohan and realizes that he has absolutely dumb stupid ridiculous mega protag strength, and that if he can harness his Protag Anger Powers in addition to his already ridiculous Super Saiyan strength, he's literally the only option they have to defeat Cell. So he decides that the only way for everyone (including Gohan, in a sense) to live is to have Gohan do the fighting and to get angry and unleash his superpowers. The fact that Goku takes the days before the fight to have Gohan live with Chi Chi proves that in a sense, this is what he wants for him ultimately, and he's just having Gohan do the fighting because it's the only way to make that future a reality.

It just sucks that all along the way Goku never takes into consideration how Gohan is feeling, what Gohan is thinking, and how Goku's actions and words and ways of going about things will impact him. Goku dismisses Gohan's strength outright in the Frieza arc, when he looks up to him so strongly and wants so desperately to be an asset (and, let's be real, when his greatest displays of strength Goku hadn't really been present for, due to unfortunate circumstances) - and flees while visibly upset at how his father lashed out at him and wouldn't let him help. After being completely dismissed in this instance, the very next major fight, Goku suddenly springs on him that he's much stronger than Goku and is in fact their only chance to win. Gohan isn't going to be able to internalize this confidence because their last major interaction in a fight involved Goku telling him to GTFO. Also, Goku doesn't communicate *anything* to Gohan about his plan to defeat Cell, which means that a) Gohan has to internalize all of his anxieties leading up to the fight because Goku dismisses them, and b) Goku has no idea just how messed up Gohan is over the idea of losing control and killing someone, he has no idea how much Gohan fears his own power, and he has no idea how much Gohan hates to fight.

This of course leads to the Cell Debacle wherein Goku fails to understand his son's perspective so completely that he's okay watching him die, under the assumption he's feeling pissed off, when in reality he's feeling hurt and scared. Goku has no concept of just how much Gohan admires him and just how much his words and actions can therefore shape the way this kid grows. Goku just thinks that as long as everyone is physically okay and the good guys win, then everything turned out all right.

goku just shoulda never had kids smh

[X-3]

I figure it's all just shounen writing.

[Valigarmander]

[QUOTE="CuccoLady, post: 1593275, member: 30977"]goku just shoulda never had kids smh[/QUOTE]
No condom is strong enough to contain Saiyan seed.

[Apollo the Just]

okay let's not even get into the massive improbability that this random alien species that has never had contact with the planet Earth before is somehow sexually compatible with humans..

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

^^ Saiyan Armor?

[Valigarmander]

Now that I think about it, how exactly were Gohan and Goten conceived? Goku is someone I can't imagine having any kind of sexual impulse.

Maybe Chi-Chi had to convince him it was a training exercise or something.

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

[QUOTE="CuccoLady, post: 1593285, member: 30977"]okay let's not even get into the massive improbability that this random alien species that has never had contact with the planet Earth before is somehow sexually compatible with humans..[/QUOTE]

Tarble's wife:

[Apollo the Just]

[QUOTE="Valigarmander, post: 1593287, member: 30663"]Now that I think about it, how exactly were Gohan and Goten conceived? Goku is someone I can't imagine having any kind of sexual impulse.

Maybe Chi-Chi had to convince him it was a training exercise or something.[/QUOTE]

headcanon accepted.

[Valigarmander]

"So the gag and handcuffs will raise my power level too?"

[X-3]

[QUOTE="CuccoLady, post: 1593285, member: 30977"]okay let's not even get into the massive improbability that this random alien species that has never had contact with the planet Earth before is somehow sexually compatible with humans..[/QUOTE]

I think the fact that they're literally humans with tails is a bit more improbable...

Why did Toriyama go all sci-fi with the series anyway? Was he just interested in it while doing Namek and Cell?

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

[QUOTE="X-3, post: 1593294, member: 27765"]they're literally humans with tails[/QUOTE]

In appearance only. They're actually quite different in many other ways.