Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens

Valigarmander · #201

^
[spoiler]I thought it after Leia said it. Does that count?[/spoiler]

United Nations · #202

[QUOTE="Valigarmander, post: 1578390, member: 30663"]^
[spoiler]I thought it after Leia said it. Does that count?[/spoiler][/QUOTE]
Twinsies!!

Marilink · #203

[spoiler]My theory is that R2 woke up again because Luke told him to shut down until a new Force-capable hero showed up. He basically reactivated as soon as Rey touched down on the planet. There's gotta be some connection there.

This also goes for the explanation of the map. Eventually, Luke wanted to be found, but he wanted to be found by the right person at the right time.

It's still super video game-y, but hey, whatever.[/spoiler]

Softguitar · #204

^ That's exactly what I think.

[spoiler]Or R2-D2 is a dick.

And why is nobody talking about Poe? I thought he was cool.[/spoiler]

Valigarmander · #205

Apparently Daniel Craig was in this film.
[spoiler]He was the stormtrooper who succumbed to Rey's Jedi mind trick.[/spoiler]

United Nations · #206

^My grandpa knew that so
[spoiler] every time he saw a stormtrooper, he leaned over and said, "I found James Bond!" [/spoiler]

Sim Kid · #207

[QUOTE="Auron, post: 1578346, member: 28318"][spoiler]I believe he mentioned something right before Rey found the lightsaber about how when he got his first taste of action, he felt uncomfortable about it all and decided to run away. Implying that the beginning of the movie was his first mission. And I don;t think it's too obtuse for him to have been someone who was more eager to be in the action while at his previous position and was at some point given a promotion. It's not like you're stuck at the job you work at with no possibility of upward mobility. Ever.[/spoiler]
[/QUOTE]

[spoiler]First taste of action? yep. Though again... why Jakku? Are they confident enough in this mission that they can promote a sanitation worker?[/spoiler]

Erniewan · #208

[spoiler]I think R2 probably sensed Rey as well, tho not because of the Force; how would R2 be Force-sensitive? Probably instead he sensed Rey as Luke's daughter. This would also explain why there is a map and why it didn't open til she showed up.

I thought Rey was too strong for having no training, but this would make some sense if she was Skywalker lineage at least (I hope Mara Jade is her mother too, which would make both her parents Force-sensitive). Though I suppose I can believe Kylo Ren was weakened physically (bowcaster is one of the strongest blasters) and emotionally enough to bring him down to her level. Just don't forget, being a capable melee fighter is one thing, using the Force to predict the opponent's actions and controlling a weightless blade is a whole other level.
[/spoiler]

Marilink · #209

[QUOTE="Sim Kid, post: 1578430, member: 22276"][spoiler]First taste of action? yep. Though again... why Jakku? Are they confident enough in this mission that they can promote a sanitation worker?[/spoiler][/QUOTE]
[spoiler]The mission of "blow up an outpost and kill a bunch of innocent civilians" isn't exactly a high-risk operation.[/spoiler]

Auron · #210

^My thoughts exactly.

Softguitar · #211

[spoiler]IT'S A MAP![/spoiler]

ScottyMcGee · #212

Finally saw it today like I said.

[SPOILER]
I do like the idea of the Starkiller being an upgraded concept of the Death Star in that the Starkiller shoots multiple planets from long distances. I didn't feel any impact with it though. It's both a cool idea and yet tiring all the same because you KNOW they have to destroy that **** by the end of the movie because if not then the bad guys are free to kill everyone and that would present huge plot holes if they didn't.

This is going to sound weird and slightly controversial maybe, but after having known the prequels, I kind of had specific expectations of what to see here. In the original trilogy, we hardly saw the outside world from just the adventure. In the prequel trilogy, the adventures were horrible but we got a sense of what civilians were like on other planet and what the Old Republic was like. So, naturally, I imagined that in the Force Awakens we see some peacetime again and get to be comfortable with the idea of a Republic in the galaxy again. Instead - nothing. So when the Starkiller destroyed those planets I was like "Okay. . ." Didn't really have the same impact. It wasn't like in A New Hope when Leia was attached to Alderaan and you were like "Oh no!"

I had a guilty pleasure of holding onto the EU when it was revealed Kylo Ren was Han and Leia's son and I kept thinking, "Please be Jacen" and when Han was about to shout his real name I was like "JACEN!--oh, no, Ben. Okay." For a while I thought that it would also be revealed that Rey would be Kylo's sister - but a sister that not even Han and Leia recognized because they kept her safe on Jakku since she was born so Kylo or Snoke couldn't find her, and then it would be revealed that the Falcon was actually on Jakku on purpose - but as the movie went on obviously that wouldn't fit plotwise. In the end - I love Rey as just not connected to the Solo family anyway. It's funny though because in the latest EU novels, which are totally stupid and I didn't read because just reading the summaries it's dumb, Jacen turns to the dark side and Jaina kills him. I wonder if Kylo Ren being Han and Leia's son was in any way vaguely inspired by the Jacen storyline in the EU. I even wonder if in the EU Jacen was driven to the dark side by worshiping his grandfather Vader. Point is, in the EU it was just stupid but now in the Force Awakens it actually plays off well.

I just hope that this movie was meant to be a nostalgia fest and that the new trilogy won't be a literal repeat of the original.

Oh, and I kept laughing whenever Kylo Ren was on screen without his helmet because I just kept thinking of Adam from Girls.
[/SPOILER]

Softguitar · #213

^
[spoiler]I watched Girls before but I didn't know it was him until I looked some up some information about him after watching the movie.

He could have been Snoke! He's huge in real life.[/spoiler]

ScottyMcGee · #214

[SPOILER="not really a spoiler but"]
I'm so glad lightsaber fighting is back to like the original trilogy without ostentatious flipping around and somersaulting. I mean, still, Finn and Rey weren't particularly trained but at least Kylo Ren didn't pull off some crazy stunts.
[/SPOILER]

Calamity Panfan · #215

[spoiler]I think the lightsaber fight was my favorite part of that movie for that reason. It was fast paced without them doing all sorts of flippy-doos. There was actually a sort of emotion in the fight instead of LOOK AT ALL THE FLIPS WE'RE DOING ISN'T IT NEAT[/spoiler]

Marilink · #216

^yes and ^^yes

Auron · #217

[spoiler]The way I described it to a friend of mine is that the fighting actually looked purposeful, as in these characters were actually out to maim and kill each other instead of going for the style points.[/spoiler]

Sim Kid · #218

[spoiler]Honestly I like seeing when people use the force to do things like push or pull their weapons to them. It makes sense since that's what you would probably do in a pinch anyway[/spoiler]

Bomby · #219

My initial thoughts, having not read your conversation thus far (no disrespect, I'll go back and read your posts shortly):

3.5/5. It's about as good as I expected it to be, tough I found I liked it more than I expected to. I think I was thrown off by the style at first; the Star Wars movies have always been a bit wider framed and slowly cut. That alone made it feel like it was someone else just making their own version of a Star Wars movie in modern stylistics... then I realized that's exactly what it was in the first place and Captain Obvious kicked me in the shin for forgetting that part. Once I got used to the style, I found myself enjoying it for what it was, in no small part due to Daisy Ridley and John Boyega as Rey and Fin. I already had confidence in Boyega from his performance in Attack the Block, and I'm glad to see the other lead match his abilities. I hope to see the two of them have great careers that can expand beyond the Star Wars franchise.

[spoiler]In spite of Rey's very obvious "Mary Sue" tendencies, I still found I liked her quite a bit. I did have a problem, it was how quickly she was able to figure out how to fly the Millennium Falcon. As I said earlier, the chemistry she had with Fin worked very well for me. Rey's character was very much in the spirit of what had already existed in the franchise, and Fin brought a new element in with his sense of humor that comes off as more of the "little guy who is in way over his head and wants to impress the girl." One thing I liked in particular was when he got knocked out, and when Rey came to see if he was okay, he asked her if she was okay. Typical man "I want to be the hero" stuff, and I'm glad the movie was self-aware of that trope.

I really feel like the end scene where Rey meets Luke should have been the first scene in the next movie instead. One problem I really had was that his appearance was played as a dramatic reveal. We already knew who was going to be behind the hood. The way Han and Chewie, and later on Leia, just kind of casually walked into the movie was a much better re-introduction.

But really, was bringing back all of the old characters even necessary? I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if that was Disney pressuring JJ Abrams to include them, rather than his own personal choice. Either way, I really do think it could have been better as a new story where taking place after all the old characters had long been dead. Perhaps they thought they needed to do it to draw viewers back in. But come on, it's freaking Star Wars. It already has a built in audience.

At least Han had the same personality that made him (in my opinion, at least) the best part and most interesting character of the original trilogy. Han had to die. Harrison Ford wanted him to die at the beginning of Return of the Jedi. It was going to happen. If there is one strong case for his inclusion, it's that his demise added a bit of an emotional punch to it.

On a related note, I found that Kylo Ren just wasn't an interesting character. The fact that he had already transformed from Ben into the villain by the beginning of the plot made his emotional conflict about whether he wants to be a good guy or a bad guy feel kind of felt out of place. Also, The "why did I choose this" scene where he was talking to Darth Vader's helmet was so cheesy. What was it that made him decide to join the First Order? Perhaps the plot of him making that decision could have been interesting.

What is the First Order anyway? We know they're the bad guys, we know that they want to take down the Republic, and they are clearly directly linked to the Empire. But what happened to the Empire after the events of Return of the Jedi? Were they in shambles after the deaths of Palpatine and Darth Vader and the destruction of the second Death Star? If so how did they build themselves back up to being the powerful movement they are? Did they ust quickly adjust to a new regime with their leaders gone? Was the Republic just a more successful creation of the Rebel Alliance that remained at war with the Empire?

The original Star Wars didn't have to answer those questions, because the plot was the struggle against an Empire that was already in power. We didn't need to know why, we just needed to know that they were bad. But this is jumping ahead in time, skipping past the evolution of an entity we already knew about.

And, as several people have pointed out, it feels like a rehash of A New Hope.[/spoiler]

With all that said, it was an entertaining movie. Its biggest flaw is that it just seemed like wish fulfillment of what fans who were disappointed with the prequels, and didn't really go beyond that to truly introduce anything new. So yes. 3.5/5 for the movie itself as a standalone film. I wonder if more people will start to agree with me when the hype dies down.

I hope Adam Driver gets to wear his fedora in the next movie.

United Nations · #220

[QUOTE="Bomby, post: 1578618, member: 17840"]
[spoiler]In spite of Rey's very obvious "Mary Sue" tendencies, I still found I liked her quite a bit. I did have a problem, it was how quickly she was able to figure out how to fly the Millennium Falcon. As I said earlier, the chemistry she had with Fin worked very well for me. Rey's character was very much in the spirit of what had already existed in the franchise, and Fin brought a new element in with his sense of humor that comes off as more of the "little guy who is in way over his head and wants to impress the girl." One thing I liked in particular was when he got knocked out, and when Rey came to see if he was okay, he asked her if she was okay. Typical man "I want to be the hero" stuff, and I'm glad the movie was self-aware of that trope.

I really feel like the end scene where Rey meets Luke should have been the first scene in the next movie instead. One problem I really had was that his appearance was played as a dramatic reveal. We already knew who was going to be behind the hood. The way Han and Chewie, and later on Leia, just kind of casually walked into the movie was a much better re-introduction.

But really, was bringing back all of the old characters even necessary? I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if that was Disney pressuring JJ Abrams to include them, rather than his own personal choice. Either way, I really do think it could have been better as a new story where taking place after all the old characters had long been dead. Perhaps they thought they needed to do it to draw viewers back in. But come on, it's freaking Star Wars. It already has a built in audience.

At least Han had the same personality that made him (in my opinion, at least) the best part and most interesting character of the original trilogy. Han had to die. Harrison Ford wanted him to die at the beginning of Return of the Jedi. It was going to happen. If there is one strong case for his inclusion, it's that his demise added a bit of an emotional punch to it.

On a related note, I found that Kylo Ren just wasn't an interesting character. The fact that he had already transformed from Ben into the villain by the beginning of the plot made his emotional conflict about whether he wants to be a good guy or a bad guy feel kind of felt out of place. Also, The "why did I choose this" scene where he was talking to Darth Vader's helmet was so cheesy. What was it that made him decide to join the First Order? Perhaps the plot of him making that decision could have been interesting.

What is the First Order anyway? We know they're the bad guys, we know that they want to take down the Republic, and they are clearly directly linked to the Empire. But what happened to the Empire after the events of Return of the Jedi? Were they in shambles after the deaths of Palpatine and Darth Vader and the destruction of the second Death Star? If so how did they build themselves back up to being the powerful movement they are? Did they ust quickly adjust to a new regime with their leaders gone? Was the Republic just a more successful creation of the Rebel Alliance that remained at war with the Empire?

The original Star Wars didn't have to answer those questions, because the plot was the struggle against an Empire that was already in power. We didn't need to know why, we just needed to know that they were bad. But this is jumping ahead in time, skipping past the evolution of an entity we already knew about.

And, as several people have pointed out, it feels like a rehash of A New Hope.[/spoiler][/QUOTE]
[spoiler] Addressing your Kylo Ren remark, I said it before, but I think he's playing the long game. I think he's planning on taking down giant guy by learning the dark side of the force. I think he killed Han as a way to make it appear he's serious about the dark side. I think the dark side still appeals to him on some level and that's where the conflict comes in, but I think he's actually good. [/spoiler]