Inglourious Basterds

[Metal Mario]

You're looking for an excuse to disown a film you haven't seen. Even if you ever do go see it, you will probably have already made up your mind to dislike it before the opening credits even start. I'd give you a serious debate but I'm afraid that I can't take you seriously.

On the contrary, I have every intention of seeing this film. I also acknowledged that I hadn't yet seen the film and therefore couldn't pass judgment on whether or not the article speaks correctly. I simply thought the article made some good points (especially about Tarantino's principal funding for the film being supplied by the German "Ministry of Culture"), and decided to go ahead and link to the article as a matter of interest.

So, if the film isn't an ejaculation of anti-Semitism by the same filmmaker who made Sidney Poitier's daughter play a character named "Jungle Julia" in Death Proof, then the article doesn't hold water and the film has nothing to defend itself from. If, however, it is an ejaculation of anti-Semitism by the same filmmaker who had Christopher Walken fly into a rage and kill Dennis Hopper after Hopper accused Walken of being descended from black people in True Romance, then the light the article sheds on the subject will be a good thing.

Either way, the innocent have nothing to fear.

[X-3]

"Ejaculation of anti-semitism" sounds funny when read out loud.

[Valigarmander]

Sounds like the title of a 1930's German porno.

[X-3]

AND NOW WE REFLECT DEEPLY.

I wouldn't be surprised if stuff like that existed as propaganda. (or pornaganda?)

[Valigarmander]

Stuff like that probably exists now.

And has nine sequels.

[CaptHayfever]

"Jungle Julia" was her radio name, like "Wolfman Jack" or "DJ Ryan". And no one made her take the role; she could've turned it down.

And remember, "I'm-a Luigi, number one!"

[Metal Mario]

^I know it was her radio name. And it was her radio name because she was black. If the character had been an Aryan, she hardly would have called herself "Jungle Julia". (Nor do I imagine she would have called herself "Snow Mountain Sandy".) So basically, Tarantino looks at a black girl and sees someone wearing a leopard-print bikini and a bone through her nose.

I know he didn't hold a gun to the girl's head and say, "Take this role or I'll blow your jungle-dwelling brain out, jungle girl." But the fact that he takes the daughter of Sidney Poitier - a man who made his career out of playing angry black men who took exception at being called "boy" - and gave her a name like "Jungle Julia"...well, it's kind of cheeky, wouldn't you say?

[Bomby]

1. The name "Jungle Julia" is an echo of 1970's culture, which was really what Death Proof was based around. Yes, this is politically incorrect, but you're misreading way too much into it.
2. Walker was the villain. Also, since when was creating a racist character a racist act in and of itself? Furthermore, let's point out Mr. Pink and Nice Guy Eddie from Reservoir Dogs and Jimmie Dimmick's "dead ******" speech in Pulp Fiction while we're at it.
3. It's amazing how such a film as anti-Semitic as Basterds was able to slip by a Jewish producer (Lawrence Bender), distributor (Harvey Weinstein), lead actors (Eli Roth, B.J. Novak), and the Anti-Defamation League. Wow. I guess Jewish people just don't know when to get offended! :rolleyes:

[Valigarmander]

That reminds me of something I read a while ago.

'Basterds' pro-Nazi short made by a Jewish director - CNN.com

[Metal Mario]

Walken was the villain. Also, since when was creating a racist character a racist act in and of itself? Furthermore, let's point out Mr. Pink and Nice Guy Eddie from Reservoir Dogs and Jimmie Dimmick's "dead ******" speech in Pulp Fiction while we're at it.

That's my point. Tarantino seems to take every opportunity he can to rip on black people. I mean, an Italian mobster calling a black guy a dirty word before blowing his head off is one thing, because it has context. But just about all of Tarantino's characters in all of his movies are racist, and express it in the bluntest way possible, usually while there are black people in the room. (If I was Samuel L. Jackson, I would have slapped Tarantino the second time he said the "N" word at most.)

It's amazing how such a film as anti-Semitic as Basterds was able to slip by a Jewish producer (Lawrence Bender), distributor (Harvey Weinstein), lead actors (Eli Roth, B.J. Novak), and the Anti-Defamation League. Wow. I guess Jewish people just don't know when to get offended! :rolleyes:

It's called "devil's advocate", and I'm playing it.

[ZeldaGirl]

Creating racist characters =/= necessarily being racist.

[Rainbow Dash]

It's called "devil's advocate", and I'm playing it.

not everything needs a devil's advocate

[Bad Dragonite]

I had no idea that I had made such a mistake, guys, sorry.
I didn't mean to put this in the movies forum.

Can an Admin please move this topic to PP&R?

I'm sorry I made such a horrible mistake, it'll never happen again, promise.

[Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds]

What would be wrong with protraying Germans as likable and cultured people? They're just the military personnel. I think everyone often forgets that demonising the Germans is exactly the same as Hitler's regime demonising the Jewish. Easy to hate someone you think is evil. Sure, the Nazis were responsible for terrible, unspeakable things. But it's not like the majority of Germans knew they were killing the Jews; much like the majority of US citizens didn't know the military was torturing the prisoners in Iraq.

So, you know, it really shouldn't be offensive to have some regular, normal, civilised people in the German military, even if they were under the Nazis. I think it's all crazy.

[Deku Tree]

^I was thinking the exact same thing. Granted, my family is from Germany and I had a grandpa who fought for them in WWII, but I'd think the same thing anyway since I'm told he was a real butthole.

[Metal Mario]

demonising the Germans is exactly the same as Hitler's regime demonising the Jewish.

Well, I wouldn't say it was exactly the same, since the Jews weren't incinerating people by the millions and bringing all of Europe to its knees.

it's not like the majority of Germans knew they were killing the Jews; much like the majority of US citizens didn't know the military was torturing the prisoners in Iraq.

Whether the majority of Germans knew (or chose to acknowledge) the ultimate fate of the Jews, they were still a nation of anti-Semites who didn't bother to give a second thought to where all their Jewish friends and neighbors were disappearing to.

And slapping a terrorist in the face doesn't qualify as "torture". Hell, waterboarding doesn't qualify as torture. Compared to what al-Qaeda will do to you if they capture you, waterboarding is practically a sex act.

So, you know, it really shouldn't be offensive to have some regular, normal, civilised people in the German military, even if they were under the Nazis. I think it's all crazy.

As far as I can tell, it's not the alleged depiction of German characters as cultured or civilized that gets this reviewer's goat. It's the depiction of German characters as cultured and civilized in contrast to Jewish characters depicted as bloodthirsty hillbillies.

[Bomby]

That's my point. Tarantino seems to take every opportunity he can to rip on black people. I mean, an Italian mobster calling a black guy a dirty word before blowing his head off is one thing, because it has context. But just about all of Tarantino's characters in all of his movies are racist, and express it in the bluntest way possible, usually while there are black people in the room. (If I was Samuel L. Jackson, I would have slapped Tarantino the second time he said the "N" word at most.)

Despite the fact that, you know, Samuel L. Jackson has always defended Tarantino's usage of the N-word in his films? And Pam Grier, too.

It's called "devil's advocate", and I'm playing it.

And I'm proving you wrong.

[Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds]

I consider you a troll, Metal Mario, and I'm not going to bother trying to argue your obviously incorrect and intentionally inflammatory comments.

^I was thinking the exact same thing. Granted, my family is from Germany and I had a grandpa who fought for them in WWII, but I'd think the same thing anyway since I'm told he was a real butthole.

Hey, my family fled the Germans in WWII, and I still think that way regardless. To give some perspective, though: my great grandfather was a Csendőr. They would have killed him if they caught him, and probably his family, too (his wife-- my great grandmother --being pregnant with my grandfather at the time, meaning I wouldn't exist had that happened).

Also, I just finished reading The Gone Away World by Nick Harkaway, so I totally love you for using "butthole". XD

[Metal Mario]

How am I a troll? By posing legitimate counter-statements in a civil, decidedly non-inflammatory way? Lady, I promise you, I didn't come here to piss you off. Hell, it's for this very reason that I elect to stay out of the PPR Forum. Because all I have to do is say something that contradicts conventional liberal doctrine and then everybody accuses me of being a troll. I don't even know what a troll is! If a troll, however, is someone who deliberately infiltrates a discussion in order to sow seeds of aggression and hostility, then I am most certainly not a troll.

If a troll is someone who disagrees with the majority view of a given environment, however, then yeah, I guess I'm a troll.

Believe me, the last thing I want to do is get into a discussion about what constitutes torture and whether or not it's morally acceptable. I only replied to that point because you brought it up in some frankly ludicrous comparison of what the Nazis did to the Jews. And I think it's too bad that you have to dismiss me as a "troll" just because I disagree with you and say so.

[Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds]

devil's advocate


• noun a person who expresses a contentious opinion in order to provoke debate.

Compact Oxford English Dictionary

dev·il's advocate (dvlz) KEY

NOUN:
One who argues against a cause or position, not as a committed opponent but simply for the sake of argument or to determine the validity of the cause or position.

American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language

dev·il's ad·vo·cate (plural dev·il's ad·vo·cates)


noun

Definition:

1. opponent for the sake of it: somebody who argues about something merely to provoke discussion

Encarta World English Dictionary

Main Entry: devil's advocate
Function: noun
: a person who champions the less accepted cause for the sake of argument

Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary

Troll (Internet)

In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional or disciplinary response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.[2]

Wikipedia

troll
An outrageous message posted to a newsgroup or mailing list or message board to bait people to answer. Trolling is a form of harassment that can take over a discussion. Well meaning defenders can create chaos by responding to trolls. The best response is to ignore it.

Glossary of Internet Terms

troll

(v.) (1) To deliberately post derogatory or inflammatory comments to a community forum, chat room, newsgroup and/or a blog in order to bait other users into responding.

Webopedia Computer Dictionary

troll - An electronic mail message, Usenet posting or other (electronic) communication which is intentionally incorrect, but not overtly controversial (compare flame bait), or the act of sending such a message. Trolling aims to elicit an emotional reaction from those with a hair-trigger on the reply key. A really subtle troll makes some people lose their minds.

Free Online Dictionary of Computing

You say toe-MAY-toe, I say toe-MAH-toe. We're in agreement, you just prefer the term "devil's advocate", while I acknowledge trolling.