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Seeing as the new DBZ movie just came out in Japan the other day (and I watched an interview with Sean Schemmel in which he brought up Goku VS Superman), I've been getting into DBZ by researching Power Levels and Goku VS Superman material. I felt like debunking Screw Attack's Death Battle outcome between Goku and Superman because it was just wrong on so many levels. I ran some calculations which are probably mathematically inaccurate but also took away their excuses against Power Levels/Power Scaling.

Anyway, get ready for a wall of nerdy text:

Dragon Ball Wiki] wrote:
If Arale can move at Mach 1, lift 100 tons, destroy the Earth in a single punch, move Earth
to Venus in a single stomp, and Akira Toriyama stated that if Goku fought Arale during the King
Piccolo Saga in Dragon Ball (at which point Goku's Power Level was 260) that he would only
probably lose to her (which suggests her Power Level is not vastly higher than 260, so we'll round
her Power Level up to 300), this means that Goku's Power Level can be calculated based on this information:

Mach 1 = PL 300

100 Tons = PL 300

If we take Goku's last officially stated Base Form Power Level (3,000,000), boost him up to SSj4, we get 12,000,000,000. Clearly his Base Form increases from before finishing his battle with Frieza to the end of Dragon Ball GT: A Hero's Legacy, but for absolute modesty we will calculate as though he never increased his power ever at all by any amount (not counting Transformation multipliers).

Okay, we have our heavily gimped Goku at 12,000,000,000. Let's start calculating strength. If it
takes 300 PL to lift 100 Tons then at that Power Level we have Goku lifting 4,000,000,000 Tons.

Next, Mach 1 is around 761 MPH but according to Wikipedia "the speed represented by Mach 1 is not a
constant." So, we'll drop it to 700 MPH for argument's sake. Rounding down, that is a speed of
28,000,000,000 MPH.

I'd like to calculate Goku's durability as well but that's too hard for me. If anyone wants to correct my calculations or cover his durability then feel free.

So Screw Attack's Goku VS Superman DEATH BATTLE had Goku at:

Lifting: 160,000 Tons
Speed: 1,599,200,000 MPH

The reality, at absolute minimum, is:

Lifting 4,000,000,000 Tons
Speed: 28,000,000,000 MPH

Mind that these are the lazy numbers I made based on Goku's minimum and look how much higher they
already are than Screw Attack's pitiful calculations. The reason for the disparity? They took Goku's
lifting power from the manga's stated 40 tons, even though that's clearly plot induced stupidity. Goku has
been shown lifting much more than 40 tons throughout the series. With a Power Level of 10 Goku lifted
and threw a car with Bulma inside. That's literally the first thing that happens in Dragon Ball.

EPA]The E.P.A.'s weight statistics show that the average weight of a 2003 car or light-duty truck wrote:4,079 pounds[/b].

So let's say that since Bulma's car was small, with its and her weight combined, it weighed about 2,000 pounds. Are we really going to say Goku didn't even get 40x stronger after the Cell Saga? No matter how you calculate it, one thing is certain, Goku can lift 40 tons in Base Form with his dick.

I'm surprised they didn't resort to basing Goku's durability on the infamous "Goku was cut by glass" scene
in Dragon Ball GT.

Another reason for their poor results for Goku is they didn't use Power Levels nor Power Scaling
since Daizenshuu stated that "the entire point of introducing [Power Levels] was to show how
unreliable and meaningless they are." Which is actually a true statement in the most technical,
direct sense, devoid of logic and context. See, Power Levels taken at face value without taking
other information into consideration as the villains did will result in an unreliable result making
the reading unreliable and thus meaningless.

Example: Raditz assumed that since Gohan's Power Level was low that he was not a threat. This does
not take into consideration several factors, such as one's ability to change their Power Level.
This is again seen when Trunks supresses his Power Level and is not considered a threat, although
the main difference here was it was intentional because Trunks has full mastery of his own ki.
So, Raditz's low reading turned out to be unreliable seeing as Gohan raised it and hurt him. Even
after he raised it, we can still consider it a meaningless reading because even though Gohan could
now hurt Raditz in theory (and did), it didn't mean he was going to beat him just because of a higher
Power Level. His ki mastery was not developed like Trunks' was and so he could not maintain the power
through skill but only keep it as long as his emotions allowed. This means that no matter what reading
you get from Gohan, high or low, it would have been almost completely unreliable and meaningless on its
own. All Power Levels do is inform you of what current level of power a being has.

Speaking of power, even power itself is meaningless sometimes. Broly, for example, was born with a
Power Level of 10,000, higher than almost any Saiyan at the time. He, however, was of no threat to
almost anyone since he couldn't utilize the enormous power. Alternatively, a fighter with a lower
Power Level can potentially defeat stronger opponents through technique, strategy, and other means.
A good example is Guldo; although he was weaker than Gohan he could have potentially defeated him in
1-on-1 combat. Instead, both he and Krillin together had trouble against Guldo and Vegeta actually
finished him off by surprise. It defies a Power Level reading that Guldo could defeat them, which supports that relying on a Power Level alone to determine an outcome is unreliable.

I want to be clear on one issue, though; this doesn't mean that Power Levels are completely useless.
As you notice, there is a direct correlation between Power Level and potential threat and the Daizenshuu
doesn't eliminate this observable truth. A human like Hercule, despite being a martial arts master with
feats above the average person's, could still never hope to defeat Uub (in Dragon Ball Z) in a fair fight,
who was not properly trained, simply due to his overwhelming Power Level advantage over Hercule. Being a more experienced, trained, and confident warrior could never help him defeat the inexperienced, untrained, timid boy. That is how Power Levels work, it determines only raw stats like speed, strength, and durability as long as the Power Level is sustained, which aren't all that matter in a fight.

So, there is nothing wrong with Power Levels, Power Scaling or these facts. There certainly
is a problem with Screw Attack's outcome and I'd like to see someone properly go over the stats
in much more depth than I did, without being too lazy to account for Goku's increases throughout
the series.

TL;DR: I am excited for the new DBZ movie and Superman sucks and so does Screw Attack's Death Battle outcome between Goku and Superman.

Thoughts, calculations?

I don't know a whole ton about DBZ, but I'm totally with you as far as Superman sucking goes.

But can he beat Madara Uchiha?

^ Chiaotzu could.

Arale has fourth wall powers. She can't be beaten.

^ I don't think she is unbeatable. Her speed, strength, and endurance have been defined (albeit loosely), and she has a stated weakness; her poor vision. Not only this, but Whis is confirmed to be the strongest being in the Dragon Ball universe up until BotG (and likely RoF). At the very least, we know Whis can defeat her, and Toriyama said that she would only "probably" beat Goku.

What if Superman got help from the Care Bears? Do you think he could beat Goku then?

^ It would actually improve his chances but I doubt they'd win. If Superman could get Goku in a hold long enough for the Care Bears to perform the Care Bear Stare, it may be enough to mentally subdue Goku so Superman can finish him. It comes down to whether or not that scenario could come to pass and if the technique would affect him or not.

Yeah, I just researched Care Bears for what I'm 99.9% sure was sarcasm.

Also of note, Bedtime Bear may be able to afflict sleep upon Goku. Wish Bear could increase the odds of Superman defeating Goku or the aforementioned techniques working.

So I'd say Superman's odds go up dramatically with their aid but is still relatively low, especially on a bloodlusted Goku. At the very least they are a distraction.

That wasn't sarcasm at all.

How about if Shere Khan helped, too? He eats people all the time. Would Goku think to tie a burning branch to his tail?

Shere Kahn's only outstanding feat is a resistance to psychic abilities. Unfortunately that's of no use against Goku so he would be relegated to a distraction at best, but he is sort of cunning so he could act as a strategist for the Care Bears, I suppose.

He also eats people. He's a Bengal tiger. He thrashes Baloo the bear, and Baloo is strong. Baloo throws King Louie and Mowgster around just for fun, uproots trees, and breaks a coconut against his own head, the monkeys smash a huge boulder over his face with no lasting ill effects, and Shere Khan beats the sh*t out of him. Like, Superman and the Care Bears put Goku down, and then Shere Khan eats him up. It's perfect.

[QUOTE="Booyakasha, post: 1530462, member: 17381"]He also eats people. He's a Bengal tiger. He thrashes Baloo the bear, and Baloo is strong. Baloo throws King Louie and Mowgster around just for fun and breaks a coconut against his own head, and Shere Khan beats the sh*t out of him. Like, Superman and the Care Bears put Goku down, and then Shere Khan eats him up. It's perfect.[/QUOTE]

[MEDIA=youtube]5xehQJkzKrM[/MEDIA]

Lions are suck sissies compared to tigers. I know the manes are impressive-looking, but, you know, baboons will crew up and kick their asses. Hyenas, too--------hyenas are just about fed up with lions and their bullsh*t.

But it's a matter of quantity over quality there, at least.

I would say that Dragon Ball Z characters are all ridiculously overpowered, but Goku was originally based on and named after one of the most ridiculously overpowered characters ever. And Sun Wukong(Chinese)/Son Gokuu(Japanese) is likely based on someone possibly even more ridiculously powerful. And neither of them are the most powerful characters in the epics they appear in, even when they can literally kick gods around.

Dragon Ball at least kept it somewhat balanced, and even then there were people that could destroy planets with ease.

Also, Superman is sometimes shown to be ridiculously overpowered. Depends on the source. I remember in the Justice League and Superman(90's) cartoons and he was fairly balanced, being vulnerable to certain things, needing to breathe, and the like. Someone just as strong could hit him and cause injury. But other iterations have Superman being only a little short of a god in human form. And he gets more powerful depending on the wavelength of radiation he can absorb, so his limit is hard to say. But put him under a red star and he becomes considerably weaker.

^ Superman was too much of a Popeye character back in the old days. He had no defined parameters. I recall nukes and gas station explosions hurting him, but later not taking damage from...anything. Then back to being hurt by artillery shells and whatnot, just too much fluctuation. Maybe he just has good and bad days. He has a history of a crappy fighter, too, even losing to mortals like Muhammad Ali (under a red star but it shows he isn't a great fighter by nature like Saiyans, let alone trained and talented ones like Goku), but again rubberbanding, going toe-to-toe skillwise with all manner of skilled foes. Arguing for him everyone either cites his best or worst moments but if we look at the middleground he's just average.

I was only partially aware of Goku's history. Interesting finds.

Eh, Superman is just a deus ex machina magnet. It's pretty much impossible to say what the limits would be on him if he occupied the same universe as Goku, but safe to say that the DC writers would decide he was more powerful.