Goku: Who's stronger than him?!

[Maximum Spider]

Mugen?

Wiki is your friend.

M.U.G.E.N - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[PK FIRE!]

Heh Batman, sure he may not be strong but he's damn smart paraniod as all get out and plans for everydamn thing he even has plans to take out members of the jsutice leage incase they go rouge.

As a joke Naruto The kids damn stubborn he also refuses to stay down, also he's damn near impossible to kill because of his enhanced healing rate. Then there's the matter of the nine tailed fox he can call upon or better yet His shiriken theemed rasenga witch cuts at a cellular level.

You stupid dog!

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

Finally someone I am familiar with. Narute's only chance would be to make his Shadow Clones and confuse Goku. And I mean, make a LOT of them, more than he ever has and on a constant basis. Wearing him down is the only option since Narute is comparitively, Dragon Ball status.

Bat Man, really, I could kick his ass if I had the right weapons and training. Anyone could, dudes just Bill Gates on steroids with anger issues. But I admit, if cool was a deciding factor in a fight he'd probably win.

[Calamity Panfan]

^ Anybody could kick his ass in hand to hand combat given the right training. But the thing is, they don't, Batman had better training, and he also has tools to help him out.

He's more than Bill Gates on steroids and anger issues, but that's another debate.

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

Well, ya catch my drift. He has no special, supernatural or enhanced abilities (original Bat Man) which means anyone with moderate intelligence and great strength should defeat him fairly easily. The stories always require circumstance and outside forces for Bat Man to beat someone. I remember he punked Super Man around one time since he had Kryptonite but without it, he'd be doomed.

Anyway, like you said, that is a different debate...

[Erdawn Il Deus]

If you're going to show Goku off against Batman then you're going to have to show them off on a level field - which means all you have to do is have Batman full prepared for the fight. I'm not obtusely going to assume Batman would win hands down, but you have to factor in the contingency that knowing he was going up against Goku he would be prepared - possibly, say, by having gathered all the Dragon Balls or something. He defeated Superman in one on one combat because of this, and Superman, essentially, is a god with limitless power. This topic is way to friggin long for me to have read it all but I felt like throwing in some of my ideas in characters who could easily whip Goku.

The Hulk - this seems at first ridiculous but you have to take into account the fact that Hulk is actually limitlessly powerful. The madder he gets, the more powerful he gets. He went toe to toe with the Sentry at one point, who is next on the list.

The Sentry - this isn't even a contest. The Sentry actually exists two seconds or so in the future. Goku is nowhere near as fast as him, for example, because whatever he does the sentry would have been aware of for two seconds prior. Wrap your mind around that for a minute. Not to mention that The Sentry is such an impossibly powerful champion for good that his very existance created The Void, a supervillain so powerful it takes the combined forces of every superhero and supervillain in the Marvel Universe to fight him - and lose, before the Sentry takes him on one on one.

Dr. Manhattan - from Alan Moore's Watchmen, again one-sided. Manhattan exists in the past, present, and the future. He has control over reality - and is, essentially, God. He could kill Goku on a scientifically level without ever having to engage him in physical combat with a thought.

Goku's limitations are pretty broad. Everything he does is purely physical. It's absurd to compare him to anime villains like Knives or heroes like Vash because despite their prowess he could pretty much relax in place and the shedding of his aura would destroy them where they stand. But again, limitations of the physical leave him weak as a puppy compared to a whole host of characters, and even physically he's still compareable to chars like The Hulk. If you take into consideration Final Fantasy characters statisticaly maxed out he loses already, and its often overlooked because of physical subtlety. I don't care enough to go into it, but if you want read some old FF deathmatches in the RPG forum. There was an ff8 vs ff7 one that sticks out as really validating my point.

[Rainbow Dash]

I don't think an FF character could really defeat Goku as easily as you say they could. We're assuming each group is at their full potential, right?

[PK FIRE!]

Um I kinda just used Naruto as a joke but I'll give it a shot. At the time of the Sand/Sound invastion Naruto was able to produce 200 shadow clones only a few hours after fighting with Neji. given that the shadow clones divide one's chakra even amungst the or ingnal and his desired number of clones, that's quite impressive. After that stunt he was able to continue fighting long enough to summon Gammabunta an emmence taod to aid in the fight against the Ichibi.

All of this was in part one where Naruto is for the mostpart a semi trained shinobi who's closer to a brawler then anything else. in part two not only does Naruto have better controll over his chakra, is a more tacticle thinker and can create the aformentioned wind elimental rasenshiriken he also has the Kiyubi's power witch he can call on. Also he now uses his shadowclone to better efect usingthem to observe and breakdown an opponet fighting style instend of just spaming the jutsu and charging in blindly he's a far more effective fighter.

- You stupid dog!

[Saria Dragon of the Rain Wilds]

Stars are hot, Phoenix can make one and apparently Goku should die from the heat.

Apparently?

...What?

You don't know what a star is, do you? You don't fathom what heat a star consists of. Millions of degrees Kelvin. Millions.

You don't understand, therefore, you cannot possibly argue against it. You just sound ridiculous, because you say things like, "apparently Goku should die from the heat". Of a goddamn star.

That's not "apparently". That's Goku no longer exists. The matter his body is made from will become part of the star. It doesn't melt, it doesn't catch on fire, he would be consumed and there would be nothing remaining. Nothing; there's no question about it.

****, I can't even believe that anyone could try and argue that. ****.

[Cravdraa]

Actually, weaker beings than Goku have been shot into the sun in DBZ and survived. =p

[ZeldaGirl]

^The Sun is technically classified as a G Main-Sequence star. On the stellar temperature classification sequence, ranked by a system of letters ordered OBAFGKM, G is actually a COOLER temperature star than others; the Sun is pitifully cool compared to stars that rank O, B, and A, and it's incredibly smaller.

Now, given that Phoenix's powers are so vast, she should be more than capable of creating stars that reach the utmost temperatures that rank on the O or B side of the spectrum.

While certain characters may have flown in to the Sun and survived, when you start talking about O or B main sequence stars (or heck, even white dwarfs are incomparably hotter than the Sun), it's an entirely different matter. The Sun is NOTHING compared to those.

[Deepfake]

Actually, weaker beings than Goku have been shot into the sun in DBZ and survived. =p

And they also don't emit a sonic boom when they travel at speeds that are supposedly faster than sound. Apparently, science was not a focal point in DBZ. In a series where these rules actually apply, Goku would become plasma and then be dispersed into heat as he is consumed by the kinetic energy of pure fusion.

He would be completely annihilated by friction any time he moved at extreme speeds, anyway. He doesn't have the ability to create a vacuum at will just to travel, and he still needs to breathe even if he did.

[Rainbow Dash]

It doesn't melt, it doesn't catch on fire, he would be consumed and there would be nothing remaining. Nothing; there's no question about it.

But, but, Courage and Muriel walked on the sun and THEY didn't melt :(

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

Crav is right

Hey, instead of saying meaningless things like science isn't a focal point in DBZ and that I don't know anything about stars, try looking at the evidence, the fictional facts I present instead of crying about things that are truely a mere scape goat.

Cooler, injured and weakened from his battle with Goku, is blasted via Kamehameha from Earth into the Sun and is still not fully destroyed.

So tell me, if Goku has an almost inconceivablly greater ammount of strength, defense and speed (I'm not talking about Meta Cooler) then tell me, doesn't that mean Goku should be able to survive much easier than Cooler even in a more powerful star? Of course it does, that's how DBZ statistics generally work, if one has a higher power level than another, they can generally withstand whatever the other took without a problem no matter how it defies your logic. DBZ was written as it was, maybe Cooler, the weak basterd, should have been fully destroyed but the fact remains he wasn't and Goku wouldn't be either unless someone can tell me why he should be.

[ZeldaGirl]

Hey, instead of saying meaningless things like science isn't a focal point in DBZ and that I don't know anything about stars, try looking at the evidence, the fictional facts I present instead of crying about things that are truely a mere scape goat.

Firstly, "fictional facts" made me laugh.

Secondly, why is it that only YOUR (fictional) logic is allowed to apply?

if one has a higher power level than another, they can generally withstand whatever the other took without a problem no matter how it defies your logic.

Yeah, okay, Goku survives the sun easier than Cooler. He doesn't survive anything that ranks up in the O or B range.

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

Firstly for me, I was gonna point out how stupid it sounded, but it's true. Also, it is funny. I just shoulda beat you to it. =P

Also, my fictional logic doesn't only apply, it's just proven in DBZ that Goku could survive what I say he can. If The Hulk can get shot with a Vulcan Cannon and live, I'd accept that. Is it that hard to grasp all this?

Well, I am not familiar with the ranges of suns but even IF his phsyical body couldn't withstand it, he is capable of creating a shield keeping everything out with his own Ki. Besides, I'd really have to have an explanation on this whole star classes thing. *Cue Wiki link*

[Deku Tree]

[video]Oyz7e8iQ6Uo[/video]

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

To: Erdawn

Erdawn, if Bat Man used the Dragon Balls to summon Shenron in a fight with Goku, that would count as 2 on 1.

As far as generic green Hulk goes, the one that I am familiar with, I cannot perceive a circumstance in which Hulk could ever defeat Goku.

Sentry's gonna need more than 2 seconds of future knowledge to win a fight. As an example, Bardock forseen future events and Frieza still killed him regardless.

Also, no FF party character could EVER take on Goku 1-on-1. Just like they could never defeat a final boss 1-on-1. They rely on each other to survive, thats FF.

Also, this Manhatten dude sounds like a surefire disqualification...but forget that for now, tell me about him, his offensive and defensive power, I'm curious.

PK, Naruto still is much less intelligent and has comparitively no experience when sat near Goku. Also, his abilities are mainly close combat giving Goku the edge by far.

[Deepfake]

Hey, instead of saying meaningless things like science isn't a focal point in DBZ and that I don't know anything about stars.

But it's pointless to argue about how he could die when most of the fundamental causes of death are rendered impotent by ****ty writing. If you want to hide behind using bad writing as an excuse for Goku to avoid death, we might as well surmise that it is just bad writing that entities like the Phoenix haven't undone existence as it is. That would universally trump Goku or anyone else, in any fashion. How hard is it for you to perceive that a creature capable of manipulating the fabric of existence could win a fight against some guy with a monkey tale that shoots energy blasts? It should go without saying while that he may not be susceptible to the reality of most physics, he is still made of the same stuff as the rest of reality.

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

The Phoenix, the way you put it seems like it can NOT lose. Can it? Has it ever been defeated?

It manipulates the very fabric of existence. Does this take a toll on it? Does it take time to use such power? Is there a time limit for said form?

The Phoenix better actually be perceivably beatable or it'll be my turn to question some writing.