Goku: Who's stronger than him?!

[1-up Salesman]

I'm not saying that Goku is stronger than Superman, 'cause I agree with you. Goku is stronger. Though, Superman has died once, and Goku has died countless times.

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

Circumstances, 1-up. What if a cute little bunny killed Supes 1 time and a badass killed Goku a few times? That's the difference.

[Calamity Panfan]

Super Man? In the movie he could barely lift that mountain/island whereas when Goku fought Pikon in the otherworld tournament, the power from their fight alone destroyed nearby planet-things. Supes goes down easy.

The island was made of Kryptonite, his only weakness.

Again, his ONLY WEAKNESS. The only chance in hell Goku has of beating Superman "easily" is if he had some Kryptonite.

[Apiary Tazy]

You're taking Batman out becaue he's a human?!?!

Ok, I'm going back to my original standing that with the way the rules are set up, you're trying to make Goku invincible.

So, a Punch to the Face wins.

[1-up Salesman]

Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta does Big-Bang Kamehameha on Superman. BOOM

[Blake]

Unicron can defeat Goku. Sure Goku can blow up planets, but Unicron can f*cking eat them like a damn snack. If Goku tried blowing something like Unicron while inside it, he'd probably get caught up in his own ki attack, destroying himself in the process. But it shouldn't ever come to that because once Unicron destroys the planet Goku is on, so goes the atmosphere and oxygen that I assume he requires to breathe.

[Calamity Panfan]

Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta does Big-Bang Kamehameha on Superman. BOOM

Gogeta is Goku + Vegeta. Not Goku himself.

[Galefore]

Goku's puny Ki would not stand up to Ganondorf, even without a weakness for the master sword. If it were not for making the game possible to beat, Ganondorf would have had enough potential power to be practically invincible.

[1-up Salesman]

Gogeta is Goku + Vegeta. Not Goku himself.

I know I'm just sayin'

[PK FIRE!]

I still say that Ness is in the running. also for whatever reason magic goofs ups superman as well.

Kefka could win, He absorbed the power of THREE goddess of magic. Enabling him to reshape the face of a planet and squash towns like flies via the light of judgment beam. let's also not forget his fallen one attack that brings oponets down to ONE heath. so FallenOne + any other attack = Kefka wins!

- You stupid dog!

[Blake]

let's also not forget his fallen one attack that brings oponets down to ONE heath.
- You stupid dog!

Lmao. I never finished an FF game but I remember there was someone that spammed that in Chrono Trigger.

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

Well, Tazy, I just have the fight as "2 guys meet at some place they can survive at and try to kill each other" so it's fair. Super Man has been hurt without kryptonite before right? I am sure of it, tell me what it was. I doubt it destroyed the planet in the process. Unicron? What's he made of? How big is he? From what I can see he's just a big robot so as long as Unicron can fit in the universe and appear before Goku and is NOT made of invincible metal, Goku should be able to destroy him.

[Galefore]

^That logic = Phail. Do not forget that Goku himself is the Japanese equivalent of pointlessly invincible, like Superman; as such, I believe that if he were made into a balanced character, he would be defeatable. In his current state, however, I am certain that Kefka would easily win. Without trying.

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

I love Zelda but I see no proof Ganon/dorf has such great power. Sorry but even that giant dragon from Wind Waker hurt ol Ganondorf.

[Galefore]

^That giant dragon was A GIANT ****ING DRAGON.

Also, you completely ignored our arguments for Kefka. And I'll stick by Ganondorf, as would my good friend Wyborn; in fact, I'm going to dig up and copy/paste an argument made by Wyborn for Ganondorf's supremacy.

Replace the bits about Diablo with Goku:

[QUOTE=Wyborn]Firstly, Diablo is not invincible, and he is not immortal. He is perfectly capable of getting his ass kicked - by a normal guy, no less. That's right, the guy who beats Diablo's ass (in either game) is no more special than Link - in reality he's a lot less special for reasons that will be gotten into later on in this post. Diablo's a bad dude, sure, and possessed the first guy who beat his ass, but he's not the ultimate demon sultan that you all think he is. Of course, even if he were, it might not matter.

I'll be as succinct as posisble, here. First, Ganondorf could beat Diablo's ass without any of the Triforce pieces, and with them it's not a contest. Why do I say this?

Consider the goddesses of Hyrule - who are creation goddesses, they made the world and all life in it and set down the laws of reality, and are way, WAY badder than Diablo ever thought about being. The three of them together have more or less complete control over reality. Diablo is probably more comparable to one of the guardian gods of Hyrule, the lesser gods who stand for elements - like Jabu Jabu or Valoo from Wind Waker. They're gods, they're unholy powerful in their own right, and to the average mortal they might as well be invincible, but they are not omnipotent. So yeah, we've established that Triforce goddesses > Diablo by a huge margin.

The Triforce itself is just as bad - when the goddesses left the Sacred Realm they left the Triforce in their wake - it was the essence of the gods, literally the stuff that made them what they were. Leaving it did not lessen them, but it created a new power just as severe. The Triforce has the same power to change reality that the goddesses do, up to and including changing the way that people's bodies are shaped. It makes the world itself reflect the heart and mind of whoever holds it - so it's more than just a wish-granter, it's a sort of god-maker, and anyone holding it will essentially be all-powerful. It is needless to say that if we give Ganondorf the whole Triforce (as he had it in LttP), Diablo is boned.

But that doesn't make sense, you say. We defeated Ganon in Link to the Past when he had the whole Triforce, you say. He should have been all-powerful! And you are quite right. The reason for this is simple: the Master Sword.

Yes, it's true tat the Master Sword is the sword of Evil's Bane, but it seems to have the added effect of being useful against wielders of the Triforce, negating its power to some effect or another and allowing the user to fight against them. This is a part of the reason that it's so important to have the Master Sword when fighting Ganon: not only will it hurt him, but unless you have it then fighting him becomes an exercise in your suicidal tendencies, you crazy duck.

Of course, having the Master Sword is rarely enough in and of itself - when he has the whole Triforce, you need some extra boost to hurt him after the master Sword has stripped away his defenses, such as Silver Arrows. As LttP is the only game wherein Ganondorf possesses the entire Triforce, it is the only game where such measures have been necessary: typically the Master Sword is enough by itself, with other weapons (like the Light Arrows) only serving the purpose of stunning him.

So, yes, Ganondorf with the whole Triforce would stomp Diablo to death and there's no question - he could probably will his ass kicked.. But maybe that's not fair either - after all, why should Gannon be the one with the One Item of Ultimate Power? So we'll say Ganondorf doesn't get the whole Triforce.

So let's say the Triforce of Power. As the essence of Din, apparently the goddess of power, this artifact in theory gives unlimited power to the person in question - just not the ability to change the rules of the universe or create life (though Ganon may have done these using his own skills fueled by the ToP). With it, Ganon can do basically anything - so long as Diablo doesn't have one of the other Triforce pieces to mitigate its power (and they do serve as a sort of limited protection against the ToP) then Ganondorf can use it to crush him into paste with nothing else.

I don't think it would be fair to take the Triforce of Power from him, though - he's only been in one game where he doesn't get that. However, for the sake of argument, we will examine how powerful Ganondorf is in the one game where he doesn't hold the Triforce: Wind Waker.

In Wind Waker, Ganondorf does numerous things relating to how bad-ass he is: one of the first is taking a full head-on attack from Valoo, a fire god, which completely destroys the tower he was in but does not seem to do any lasting damage to Ganondorf himself. Immediately after delivering the attack, which served as more of a diversion, Valoo ran like Hell. This means, right up, that Ganondorf could most likely take an assault from Diablo and come out of it more or less okay. ...wait, now that i think of it he has the Triforce of Power at this time. So moving on.

The real stuff is at the end of the game, so I will warn once more:

SPOILERS BELOW

At the end of the game, it is revealed that, by using his magic, Ganondorf has kept the waters of the entire ocean from crashing down and destroying Hyrule. Let your mind try to grasp the full extent of that - Ganondorf is using his magic to hold back the ocean, hundreds of fathoms down, over the entire kingdom. The amount of power required to do this beggars the imagination. He started the spell with the Triforce of Power, but this is irrelevant as the ocean does not come crashing down even after he casts the ToP from his body, meaning he's holding it up himself.

I need to make mention of Light Arrows in Wind Waker, as they're different from those in Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask: they're so brutally powerful that there's no comparison. If they hit an enemy, the enemy will die. Moblin? Dead. Imp? Dead. Hell, if you shoot a Darknut in an exposed spot, it's dead too. And it's not just dead - it erupts into a brilliant orb of light that slowly contracts into nothing and dissipates. These things are bad.

When Ganondorf gets shot with one, it just really pisses him off - and yes, this is without the Triforce of power. When Zelda shoots him with a Light Arrow something like five times she gets knocked the hell out.

Back to what Ganondorf works against - in the final battle, Ganondorf has no Triforce piece and no magic to call upon; he uses his swords, presumably because all of his magic is being focused towards holding back the ocean. Now, this may seem like I'm repeating myself, but the fact of the matter is this: Ganondorf is holding back the ocean while he's being attacked with the Master Sword, shot with Light Arrows, and in general getting his ass kicked. The ocean only begins to leak through because someone makes a wish on the Triforce to flood Hyrule forever, and then it only comes through in a relative trickle, flooding the place very slowly - until he dies, at which point it all comes crashing down at once.

I need to say that again: Ganondorf is holding back the weight of the ocean, fighting the Master Sword (remember, it's more or less made specifically to kill him), being shot with Light Arrows that might as well be Silver Arrows, and he only gives in inches when the Triforce itself is leveled against him. This does not conflict with the Triforce's omnipotence, but the fact that Ganondorf didn't collapse and explode shows that he has a level of power so great it boggles the mind.

So Ganondorf, even without the Triforce of Power, could in all likelihood kick Diablo's ass into his teeth.

With the Triforce of Power it's just going to be more violent.

With the whole Triforce it's like the punchline to a knock-knock joke - not funny.

So that's it! Anyone care to argue?[/QUOTE]

[X-3]

I love Zelda but I see no proof Ganon/dorf has such great power. Sorry but even that giant dragon from Wind Waker hurt ol Ganondorf.

Uh...no it didn't. Ganondorf came out of that without a scratch or burn.

[Blake]

Unicron? What's he made of? How big is he? From what I can see he's just a big robot so as long as Unicron can fit in the universe and appear before Goku and is NOT made of invincible metal, Goku should be able to destroy him.

To be fair, let's say Goku's kamehamaha wave has a range of 30 miles(about the visibility on planet earth I think). Now the speed of kamehameha's? They are quite slow. Let's say they can travel 150 miles per hour.

Seeing as Unicron is so freaking huge he can practically 'walk' from one planet to another. I think we can say Unicron can travel well over a thousand miles per hour just because of his sheer size and seeing as he moves with relative ease in the movie.

Now, once Unicron clings onto planet earth and starts to destroy it, what can Goku do? If Goku fires a kamehameha and destroys Unicron, Unicron is destroyed. However, firing a ki attack from thirty miles away is extremely dangerous if the blast radius is thousands of miles wide.

Overall, the match either ends in Goku and Unicron in a draw, or Unicron winning. Thus Unicron has a greater chance of winning because Goku basically has no chance of winning.

Edit: Oh yeah the purposes of the range and speeds of the characters is because Unicron has the advantage of being in space. Chances are he can detect the kamehamaha and avoid it before taking damage. He can just move to the other side of the planet Goku is on once he knows Goku's position and begin to devour it.

[I REALLY HATE POKEMON!]

Forgive me but I can't post alot in one go.

Not true. SSj4 Gogeta is much stronger than Goku so he is not unbeatable. If Vegeta were to fuse with Gohan or someone powerful, the fusion result would kill Goku. I just didn't base this topic on Gogeta cause I found the idea of fusion cheap. Infact, I forgot to state it is also against the rules. Who's Kefka? I hear he brings near death? Well, that's not good enough. Super Spirit Bomb anyone? Nah, unnessacarily powerful. Kamehameha is faster anyway. BTW, whaddya mean make him balanced? He's as is!

[X-3]

Don't underestimate near death. Near death makes people weak and defenseless, leaving them wide open for a final blow. Or something.

Ganon has firebats, which can burn Goku's hair, leaving him powerless! Yeah, that was a mandatory "hair joke". Cliche but beautiful.

[Galefore]

^^This proves that you've never played FF6, and yet you somehow believed ff8 was better without backup to your opinion.

And did you even read Wyborn's argument? It blows yours out of the ****ing water.