Goku Is Not A Good Father (aka The Official DBS Liveblogging Thread)
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Apollo the Just
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Cravdraa
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True story. I know it's going to sound far-fetched but I absolutely swear it's true. After watching the cell saga for the first time but not the buu saga, I had a DBZ dream like a month later and it was just the stupidest, most glorious thing.
It was basically an epilogue to the series at that point, voices by the narrator from DBZ. My subconscious had some... interesting ways of wrapping up the series.
So Goku stayed dead and continued to have adventures in the afterlife.
Gohan inherited his roll as protector of the world and kept up with his training but didn't really push himself to improve. He was basically a super hero just flying around the world nuking badguys and helping world peace along.
Vegeta kept his word that he would never fight again. (remember when he says that at the end of the cell saga?)
He gave up ever trying to surpass Goku (cause he was dead) and became the new president of capsule corp, devoting himself to becoming the most powerful business man in the world. He was now holding a monopoly strangle hold on the majority of the planet. The dream glanced over this and portrayed it as a good thing. I got a picture of him wearing a suit and then taking out a cell phone and shouting at somebody over it.
Krillin retired from fighting but still showed up to help Gohan occasionally.
Piccolo kinda watched over Gohan from a distance and went and meditated a lot.
But then there was Yamcha...
Frustrated that he wasn't able to do much against blaming himself for the outcome, he became bitter and withdrawn. He severed all contacts with the others and vanished entirely.
Three years later, at the world martial arts tournament, Gohan was competing in it for some reason, and clearly and easily made it to the finals.
That's when Yamcha showed up. Like he was in the tourney the whole time and wasn't in disguise or anything, just like somehow nobody saw him fight or something?
Anyway his bitterness had transformed into rage and he said that he'd been training all these years, and that he'd sworn he was going to be the strongest. He declares his hatred of Gohan and sees him only as an obstacle.
They fight and Gohan clearly has the upper hand, despite the fact that he's clearly more more concerned about his friend, but everyone is shocked by the viciousness of Yamcha's attacks. He's fighting with intent to kill.
As the battle goes on, despite the fact that he's clearly become MUCH more powerful, Yamcha has become battered and bruised and he finally goes down. Still more or less okay and just concerned Gohan rushed over to him. Suddenly Yamcha jumps up and gets one final sneak attack as Gohan lowers his guard. He's hurt but not terribly badly, but he falls out of the ring and loses the match. Of course, by this point he doesn't care about the match and rushes back to Yamcha's side since he's collapsed again. Yamcha is declared the winner despite that he's being carried away on a stretcher. As he's carried passed Gohan, he manages to force out a little chuckle, but it's filled with nothing but malice. He says "Remember that I took you down because you were weak and I'm only going to get stronger..." as he's carried away.
The end of the "episode" music starts up as the dream zooms in on a very confused and concerned looking Gohan's face as the narrator starts back up, questioning what could have changed Yamcha so much and what does it mean? You'll have to find out NEXT TIME!
At that point I woke up and WTF'd my brain.
It was basically an epilogue to the series at that point, voices by the narrator from DBZ. My subconscious had some... interesting ways of wrapping up the series.
So Goku stayed dead and continued to have adventures in the afterlife.
Gohan inherited his roll as protector of the world and kept up with his training but didn't really push himself to improve. He was basically a super hero just flying around the world nuking badguys and helping world peace along.
Vegeta kept his word that he would never fight again. (remember when he says that at the end of the cell saga?)
He gave up ever trying to surpass Goku (cause he was dead) and became the new president of capsule corp, devoting himself to becoming the most powerful business man in the world. He was now holding a monopoly strangle hold on the majority of the planet. The dream glanced over this and portrayed it as a good thing. I got a picture of him wearing a suit and then taking out a cell phone and shouting at somebody over it.
Krillin retired from fighting but still showed up to help Gohan occasionally.
Piccolo kinda watched over Gohan from a distance and went and meditated a lot.
But then there was Yamcha...
Frustrated that he wasn't able to do much against blaming himself for the outcome, he became bitter and withdrawn. He severed all contacts with the others and vanished entirely.
Three years later, at the world martial arts tournament, Gohan was competing in it for some reason, and clearly and easily made it to the finals.
That's when Yamcha showed up. Like he was in the tourney the whole time and wasn't in disguise or anything, just like somehow nobody saw him fight or something?
Anyway his bitterness had transformed into rage and he said that he'd been training all these years, and that he'd sworn he was going to be the strongest. He declares his hatred of Gohan and sees him only as an obstacle.
They fight and Gohan clearly has the upper hand, despite the fact that he's clearly more more concerned about his friend, but everyone is shocked by the viciousness of Yamcha's attacks. He's fighting with intent to kill.
As the battle goes on, despite the fact that he's clearly become MUCH more powerful, Yamcha has become battered and bruised and he finally goes down. Still more or less okay and just concerned Gohan rushed over to him. Suddenly Yamcha jumps up and gets one final sneak attack as Gohan lowers his guard. He's hurt but not terribly badly, but he falls out of the ring and loses the match. Of course, by this point he doesn't care about the match and rushes back to Yamcha's side since he's collapsed again. Yamcha is declared the winner despite that he's being carried away on a stretcher. As he's carried passed Gohan, he manages to force out a little chuckle, but it's filled with nothing but malice. He says "Remember that I took you down because you were weak and I'm only going to get stronger..." as he's carried away.
The end of the "episode" music starts up as the dream zooms in on a very confused and concerned looking Gohan's face as the narrator starts back up, questioning what could have changed Yamcha so much and what does it mean? You'll have to find out NEXT TIME!
At that point I woke up and WTF'd my brain.
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Valigarmander
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Apollo the Just
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I REALLY HATE POKEMON!
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Cravdraa
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It's a terrible place. Nothing can or should live here.
X-3, dunno if you were actually doubting me or not, by I get that a lot. This was a particularly vivid dream, which is why I still remember it (though I'm sure I'm probably forgetting like half the finer details) but my dreams usually have some sort of narrative to them. Dunno, suppose there's not much to say one way or another, but it's true.
X-3, dunno if you were actually doubting me or not, by I get that a lot. This was a particularly vivid dream, which is why I still remember it (though I'm sure I'm probably forgetting like half the finer details) but my dreams usually have some sort of narrative to them. Dunno, suppose there's not much to say one way or another, but it's true.
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Apollo the Just
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I've definitely had dreams that played out like an episode of something before. But I can't immediately call any examples to mind because everything pales in comparison to Menacing Evil Yamcha.
i really need to know what happens next...... does yamcha become an unstoppable evil overlord......??? CAN NO ONE TAKE HIM DOWN
((spoilers the real reason future trunks's future was destroyed was bc of yamcha, the androids were secondary))
i really need to know what happens next...... does yamcha become an unstoppable evil overlord......??? CAN NO ONE TAKE HIM DOWN
((spoilers the real reason future trunks's future was destroyed was bc of yamcha, the androids were secondary))
I believe in second chances, and that's why I believe in you.
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Apollo the Just
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that's the reason android dr. gero and android 19 weren't the first androids to awaken in Trunks's timeline (and why android 16 is straight up Not a Thing)-- YAMCHA HAD ALREADY DESTROYED THEM, AND REPROGRAMMED 17 AND 18 WITH MALICIOUS INTENT.
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I REALLY HATE POKEMON!
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Apollo the Just
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Hey guys you know the thing I was bitching about constantly for the first 6 pages of this thread? About how Piccolo is a better dad than Goku to Gohan and about how Gohan has been raised by Goku as a tool for fighting and to think that his only value is in strength, and about how I just want him to be happy but he has to continue suffering??
GUESS WHO JUST WATCHED DBS 21-23 AND IS BITCHING ABOUT THE EXACT SAME **** ALL OVER AGAIN
It's his choice if he wants to take up training again after this but I hate that he is made to feel guilty for being weak when he was just SPENDING TIME WITH HIS FAMILY AND ON HIS INTERESTS AND FOLLOWING HIS OWN LIFE PATH??????? HE'S ALWAYS BEEN FORCED INTO A PROTECTOR ROLE????????? BECAUSE OF HIS CHILDHOOD????????????? NAMELY THE CELL SAGA???????????????????? SO HE FEELS GUILTY FOR BEING A GOOD FATHER AND HUSBAND UUUGGGHHHHHHGGH
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Oh btw I basically died when Gohan talked during the fight about how he has a child and he wants the world to be peaceful so she doesn't have to be forced into fighting like he was????????? RIGHT IN THE KOKORO #bestdad
GUESS WHO JUST WATCHED DBS 21-23 AND IS BITCHING ABOUT THE EXACT SAME **** ALL OVER AGAIN
It's his choice if he wants to take up training again after this but I hate that he is made to feel guilty for being weak when he was just SPENDING TIME WITH HIS FAMILY AND ON HIS INTERESTS AND FOLLOWING HIS OWN LIFE PATH??????? HE'S ALWAYS BEEN FORCED INTO A PROTECTOR ROLE????????? BECAUSE OF HIS CHILDHOOD????????????? NAMELY THE CELL SAGA???????????????????? SO HE FEELS GUILTY FOR BEING A GOOD FATHER AND HUSBAND UUUGGGHHHHHHGGH
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Oh btw I basically died when Gohan talked during the fight about how he has a child and he wants the world to be peaceful so she doesn't have to be forced into fighting like he was????????? RIGHT IN THE KOKORO #bestdad
I believe in second chances, and that's why I believe in you.
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I REALLY HATE POKEMON!
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I don't remember what episodes those are, but if you're where I think you are, then I'm not spoiling anything:
After Frieza murdered everyone, Gohan's family included, Gohan blamed himself for being weak. That was his own realization. Not being strong enough to defend your family is a very normal, human man concern. He was didn't have a lot options at certain points. Piccolo forced him into fighting, Goku manipulated him into it, but now he wants to get stronger. I like that more than if he has to.
After Frieza murdered everyone, Gohan's family included, Gohan blamed himself for being weak. That was his own realization. Not being strong enough to defend your family is a very normal, human man concern. He was didn't have a lot options at certain points. Piccolo forced him into fighting, Goku manipulated him into it, but now he wants to get stronger. I like that more than if he has to.
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Apollo the Just
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[QUOTE="I REALLY HATE POKEMON!, post: 1595445, member: 18119"]I don't remember what episodes those are, but if you're where I think you are, then I'm not spoiling anything:
After Frieza murdered everyone, Gohan's family included, Gohan blamed himself for being weak. That was his own realization. Not being strong enough to defend your family is a very normal, human man concern. He was didn't have a lot options at certain points. Piccolo forced him into fighting, Goku manipulated him into it, but now he wants to get stronger. I like that more than if he has to.[/QUOTE]
Yeah dude I'm actually 100% with you here. Gohan deciding for himself to train to get stronger to protect the people he loves is a really important new point for his character arc.
It was this scene, but you didn't really spoil anything for me bc I already knew that what you just mentioned happens:
[spoiler=oh look it's nappa ALL OVER AGAIN]
After Piccolo died, Gohan blamed himself for being too weak. Krillin tells him "it's perfectly reasonable to stop fighting to spend time with your family!" but in this moment Gohan feels like he's made a terrible mistake?? It was just a heartbreaking scene because Gohan feels like he was wrong to - for once in his life - do what he wanted to do? Spend time with the people he loved? Now he's decided that it's also important for him to become stronger to protect them, which is great, but what killed me was how he blamed himself for not training when it was something that had always caused him misery before.[/spoiler]
i love my son and i love that super is actually giving him development again ;__;
After Frieza murdered everyone, Gohan's family included, Gohan blamed himself for being weak. That was his own realization. Not being strong enough to defend your family is a very normal, human man concern. He was didn't have a lot options at certain points. Piccolo forced him into fighting, Goku manipulated him into it, but now he wants to get stronger. I like that more than if he has to.[/QUOTE]
Yeah dude I'm actually 100% with you here. Gohan deciding for himself to train to get stronger to protect the people he loves is a really important new point for his character arc.
It was this scene, but you didn't really spoil anything for me bc I already knew that what you just mentioned happens:
[spoiler=oh look it's nappa ALL OVER AGAIN]
After Piccolo died, Gohan blamed himself for being too weak. Krillin tells him "it's perfectly reasonable to stop fighting to spend time with your family!" but in this moment Gohan feels like he's made a terrible mistake?? It was just a heartbreaking scene because Gohan feels like he was wrong to - for once in his life - do what he wanted to do? Spend time with the people he loved? Now he's decided that it's also important for him to become stronger to protect them, which is great, but what killed me was how he blamed himself for not training when it was something that had always caused him misery before.[/spoiler]
i love my son and i love that super is actually giving him development again ;__;
I believe in second chances, and that's why I believe in you.
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I REALLY HATE POKEMON!
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Yeah, he's between a rock and a hard place. They know that there are threats they need to be ready for but Krillin and Gohan lean toward being family types, living normal lives. It creates an interesting balancing act to see them work through (especially Gohan since he actually has potential to make a difference).
DBS is definitely doing the characters justice. Some are still ignored but I think that might change. GT was very much the Goku & Vegeta show. Hopefully DBS doesn't make the same mistake again but it is sorta going that way.
DBS is definitely doing the characters justice. Some are still ignored but I think that might change. GT was very much the Goku & Vegeta show. Hopefully DBS doesn't make the same mistake again but it is sorta going that way.
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Cravdraa
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CL, I dunno if you've ever looked into them, but can I recommend the DBZ Abridged series?
They start out a little rough around the edges but still funny and really improve.
Topnotch voice acting for a fan series (some of which are pretty close to the official voices, they even got the actually narrator to do a few episode), really good editing, especially later on. Most of the characters are kinda exaggerated versions of themselves.
Basically cuts out most of the filler, adds a lot of humor, but still stays weirdly true.
I'd recommend any fan of the series at least checking them out.
They start out a little rough around the edges but still funny and really improve.
Topnotch voice acting for a fan series (some of which are pretty close to the official voices, they even got the actually narrator to do a few episode), really good editing, especially later on. Most of the characters are kinda exaggerated versions of themselves.
Basically cuts out most of the filler, adds a lot of humor, but still stays weirdly true.
I'd recommend any fan of the series at least checking them out.
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I REALLY HATE POKEMON!
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Apollo the Just
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^^ I have watched every episode. Including the ones for movies I haven't seen. that show is a gift
ALSO SPEAKING OF DBZ ABRIDGED........ I played Xenoverse because it's a self insert OC fanfic game heavily featuring my son Future Trunks ((my character is Sharkkolo he's Piccolo except a shark and also buffer)) and NAPPA'S ABRIDGED VOICE ACTOR IS A VOICE TALENT IN THAT GAME
GODS ALL BLESS
ALSO SPEAKING OF DBZ ABRIDGED........ I played Xenoverse because it's a self insert OC fanfic game heavily featuring my son Future Trunks ((my character is Sharkkolo he's Piccolo except a shark and also buffer)) and NAPPA'S ABRIDGED VOICE ACTOR IS A VOICE TALENT IN THAT GAME
GODS ALL BLESS
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Cravdraa
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[QUOTE="I REALLY HATE POKEMON!, post: 1595534, member: 18119"]They got the real narrator to do a few episodes? Awesome. Which ones?[/QUOTE]
The first that comes to mind is sometime during the Goku vs Vegeta fight he shows up and just starts narrating the episode, but then starts breaking the 4th wall and talking to the actual characters. Ends up starting a betting pool with King Kai over who'll win the fight and cheating him out of money because he already knows the outcome, being the narrator. I think he makes sporadic commentary in a few random episodes, generally showing up for major plot points and/or when it'd make a good gag. I know he shows up during the goku vs freeza fight too. Can't remember if he's turned up during the cell saga at all.
The first that comes to mind is sometime during the Goku vs Vegeta fight he shows up and just starts narrating the episode, but then starts breaking the 4th wall and talking to the actual characters. Ends up starting a betting pool with King Kai over who'll win the fight and cheating him out of money because he already knows the outcome, being the narrator. I think he makes sporadic commentary in a few random episodes, generally showing up for major plot points and/or when it'd make a good gag. I know he shows up during the goku vs freeza fight too. Can't remember if he's turned up during the cell saga at all.